Q&A By Calli Ferguson

“It feels like a flower,” Sarah Katherine Lawless said about the next EP she’s been so thoughtfully working on, “And we're really taking care of it. We know it's going to take a long time to bloom, but we're waiting…” The image of slow, intentional growth felt fitting as the songwriter spoke of finding new skills in patience. And it’s cool to witness, following her Debut EP from 2024, cheekily titled, “Look What I’m Learning!”

We mused on that and the constant process of becoming when I sat down with SKL at Rofaqaa— a small coffee shop on Wycoff. “You never really know anything,” she noted. “You're always learning.” Now, curiously learning creative patience, self-trust in collaboration, and finding inspiration in community, Sarah Katherine is carefully crafting a world for her next project.

While we wait on that to blossom, she’s also reintroducing us to “make it make sense”, a track from her debut. Once an angsty indie-rock jam, the track returns August 15th in a stripped-down, beautiful, and gut-wrenching new way featuring Ava McCoy. (By the by: when you presave it here, you enter for a chance to win an iconic “you can kindly go fuck off” tank.)

But first, dive into this Q&A where we talk creative process, her evolution as an artist, songwriting in the context of our current moment, and more delicious stuff…

warmly: So you're a little over a year out from your debut EP, “Look What I’m Learning!” With some perspective, how does it feel looking back? How was the experience of releasing that?

SARAH KATHERINE LAWLESS: When I think back to that time in my life, there was a certain level of desperation. I was like, “I am so sad. I need to be doing the thing that I want to be doing.” This was me grasping for that. I just wanted it in the world. It was a frantic mindset- I cared about this thing so much, and no one really knew it.

I feel like a broken record, though. Because I say that, but then I still feel that way sometimes. Do we ever really grow?

But it was just this feeling where I wanted it out. When it came out, I'd hyped up in my mind what that release would look like. And it totally fell flat. But the nice thing is seeing it grow over the year, and seeing the love come for it later. It’s really cool because that has inspired the process for this next EP. I'm not as rushed anymore. I really want to give it the time it deserves.

I love so many things about that. One of them is: sometimes you do just have to put stuff out there. And let it be the first. And it should have time to evolve and live in the world– that's part of it.

Yeah, exactly! I've talked to so many artists about how there should be a rule where, if you're sitting on something, you put it out within a certain amount of time.

“My favorite characteristic in people is curiosity”

— Sarah Katherine Lawless

There's a Madison Cunningham lyric that I love: “The greatest song is one no mortals ever heard”. It makes me think about how people are sitting on gold with their demos, it's just not out. I'm such a Libra- I'll always say something and then go back and contradict myself.

No, I like it. It also makes me think of the concept that to create something is to destroy the idea of it. When you bring life to something, the idea you had of it has to be sacrificed.

Oh my god, it's its own creature. It's like a baby, really! You have to let it live its life; You can’t coddle it too much. I would rather nature take its form than nurture too much and suffocate something.

I love the title of the first EP, “Look What I’m Learning!”-- it’s so good. I feel like, with the tracks on it, you have these moments of catharsis, and then moments of being really “in it”, which is so relatable. Because in early adulthood, you'll have these breakthroughs, but then you have to keep breaking through. You're constantly learning to become. It's such a process. And for me, “look what I'm learning” feels so in-process.

Yes! That’s a beautiful part of it… You never really know anything, and you're always learning. My favorite characteristic in people is curiosity. As long as you keep asking questions and keep yearning for something that you don't know, I feel like that's a better way to live. So that's why I like that title. It felt kind of tongue-in-cheek, too. Like, God, I hope I'm learning!

Yes, cool. So- you touched on this- but where does that leave you now? What feels different about making the next EP?

“That’s a beautiful part of it… You never really know anything, and you’re always learning.”

— Sarah Katherine Lawless

I'm really taking my time with it. I'm being really specific. I'm doing so much work on the back end. Especially with Bennett, my manager.

Even with finding a manager, I really wanted to find somebody to grow with. And that's how I feel about this EP. It feels like a flower, and we're really taking care of it. We know it's going to take a long time to bloom, but we're waiting for it. And then we can actually be excited about that. We care about it so much. We sat down, looked at the producers we want to work with on specific songs. We took our time, and that is something that I used to not do. I was so impulsive. That's the big difference.

I'm also working with more people. For the last EP, Ben Coleman produced pretty much the whole thing, and then Goose Room produced “Counting Sheep”. But this time I'm working with so many different producers. It's cool in that I love collaboration. I always love hearing people's thoughts, what attracts them to a song, and what they want to bring out of it.

I've also really had to know myself going into it. In the beginning, it was rough- in a mental space for myself- because I was like, Wow, I really need to know what I want going into this and not waste anybody's time. [I need to] trust that I know the vision. Because getting that across to producers in different ways is hard. It's like dating- expressing your wants and needs in a relationship, and finding out if they want the same thing… Ultimately, all the producers I worked with were incredible. It was so beautiful.

I listened to your demo of the rerecording of “make it make sense”. So cool. And I listened to the version you have on “Look What I’m Learning” first. There's something angry and punchy about the original. Hearing the new demo was amazing, because it's so emotional in such a different way, with how the harmonies come through. What made you want to reimagine it that way?

Thanks! Ah- I appreciate that question so much because that was one of the songs where I always had a dream to do an indie pop rock vibe. But the crux of the song is so emotional and— I say desperate a lot, but, yeah— desperate. There’s a longing. And I felt like that is how that song really should have been.

But- you know- what are “shoulds” and “should have beens”? I liked the first one– crazy as it was! But I just knew I wanted to slow it down. I wanted people to get the chance to really hear the lyrics. And hear the sadness in what a cyclical situationship looks like. We all know how that goes— it’s sad when you reflect.

And having Ava on it-- Ava's a musician I admire so much, and I've seen her grow. She just dropped an album called “Dragonfly”. It's so good. She's an artist I've always admired, so having her on that just made my world. Her writing gets at your heart, and I wanted that in this song specifically.

It's so pretty. And it's not that the first version was wrong… It's just a different song. I really like the idea of giving the same piece of media different outfits to try on.

Totally, you could always see it differently. That's why I really wanted to redo all the vocals. Sometimes when people do slowed-down versions, it's just a remix of sorts. But I really wanted to do everything differently.

Okay, let's talk about your songwriting process. What's your approach? Or does it change?

It does change. Sometimes it changes with what I'm listening to. [Before] writing for this new EP, I was so reliant on writing whatever came to the top of my head. There are still some things like that on this upcoming EP. But writers like Lucy Dacus, Madison Cunningham, and Rufus Wainwright… They all have such a poetic sense of writing. I always thought I was shitty at that. I was like, “I'm not a poet. I actually kind of suck at that”.

Then, I remember sitting down one day and thinking, “Okay, let me take a little bit more time with it”. And wow, I'm becoming more patient! I took more time to really think about things, and that is how some of my writing has changed. I'm being more thoughtful, as opposed to saying the first thing that comes to my mind. I'm still doing that, but it just sounds a little bit better!

Do you typically write lyrics first? Or find the chords?

It kind of happens at the same time, honestly. I start with the guitar chords, but then it comes at the same time. I’ll think of a lyric. And then, “Oh, that needs to evoke this thing,” and I'll find the chord for it.

That makes a lot of sense… One thing I feel like you do really well is– the music's always bridging the gap between the lyric and the feeling.

I'm so glad that comes across. That's what I love. I feel like some of my acting background comes out sometimes. Cause I think about Stephen Sondheim: There was a thing that he did where he would juxtapose what was being said— the underscoring would be a completely different thing.

There's something much more musically interesting when you're saying something and it doesn't completely fit. It [tells you it’s] clearly bigger than what's said.

“I want to write songs that feel like they’ll never get old and take different shapes over a lifetime. ”

— Sarah Katherine Lawless

So your background is in acting… How did you transition into music?

Honestly, what's crazy is I think that I was writing and singing before I got into acting. When I was really little, I was always singing and writing songs. Acting came in the middle, but then it took me a while to find my way back to songwriting and figure out that I wanted to take it seriously.

Was there a moment when you made that decision?

It was really my mom. We sat down. I was super fucking lost. I wanted to do everything… I wanted to start a magazine. I wanted to be an actor. I wanted to maybe do social media for a corporate company. And be a photographer. It was all these different things.

At one point, my mom was like, “Listen, you are so great at all these things, but if you try to do them all at the same time, you're not going to be amazing at that one thing or give it what it deserves.” And honestly, I needed the kick in the ass. I appreciated how blunt she was being. At the time, I just wanted to be hugged. But I needed somebody to be like, “Listen, dude, you can do it, but you actually gotta go for one thing.” And I'm telling you, after that, everything changed. I don't know where I would be.

Wow! Yes- sometimes having your hands in a lot of buckets is inspiring, but then it can almost become a safety thing. To have backups.

We don't want to take the risks. Especially with where the world and society is- it’s scary.

Oh yeah, it’s so real. So what were your early musical influences? Any that are still with you or made you want to get into music?

I give it to my dad, really. He had some interesting influences. It felt like a mixed pot– there were obviously the hits that everyone loved. But there was also The Gabe Dixon Band, this guy Brendon James, Dave Matthews Band… things like that. Dad rock. I go back to those, and wow, their writing is so fucking good. They stand the test of time.

I was talking to my brother about how weird it is to see how the world and social media platforms affect what gets released. Everyone wants the hook-y song that'll make a hit, but maybe won't last. So songs from the 90s, 2000s, and before that, you listen to them, you're like, Damn, this is a great fucking song! It takes you places. It'll never get old to me. That's kind of what I want to be writing. I want to write songs that feel like they’ll never get old and take different shapes over a lifetime.

I think people are starting to– I mean, we love a good hook– but people are starting to notice when it's a little bit forced. We're getting a nose for that in a way.

Yeah! And definitely, I love a pop song. I’ve been a pop girly, and I will always have that. And even older songs have that stick– you always want something you can stick to.

And what are you listening to now as you make this EP?

I'm listening to Flyte. I love Dora Jar. She's amazing. I'm obsessed with Julia Jacklin.

A lot of my friends, too! That’s a really cool thing: there are so many of my friends that I look up to and admire. I listen to their music because it's so good, and they inspire me.

Could you share some?

Oh, my God. I mean, obviously, Ava McCoy. Chloe Southern. [Mara Markham??]. Farrah Hanna. Mia Lorelei. So many of my friends— those are a chunk of them. Baerd too- he's one of the producers that I worked with. His music is insane. It's so good.

And you just did a show at Cassette– how was that?!

It was really fun! That's another person I listen to: Catie Lausten. It was the craziest shit ever… We met when we were featured in an article together. We're from the same hometown, and an old friend of mine was writing an article about artists in Virginia. Palmyra was in this article too- they’re amazing. But I saw [Catie Lausten] and I was like, Wait, she looks so fucking cool. I went to check out her music, and it’s amazing. So we became friends virtually and admired each other from afar.

Eventually, she moved to New York, and we were able to actually hang out. She said her album was coming out and asked me to be on the bill for this show. It just felt so full circle. You look back, and what feels like such a tiny moment can be so much bigger later on.

I love Cassette. And I love the band that, over time, I've started playing with consistently. Alana Markel was on that bill too, and she's insane! Her live set is crazy!

I feel like a broken record, but whenever you see friends doing really cool things, I never feel comparison, because I'm always just inspired!

That’s the best energy to see. The love and support in the air is the coolest thing.

Social media can breed this constant feeling of envy and comparison. And I think because of that, maybe there's just a little more camaraderie.

It’s like there’s a common enemy!
So what else is coming up?

So obviously, I have the song with Ava that's coming up. But also, a friend of mine, Alex Crossland, has a song called “Dead and Ghosts”. And he did a similar thing where he stripped it down a little bit and brought me on it!

💿 Listen to Sarah katherine lawless on spotify, apple music, and soundcloud
📻 Stay tuned on what's to come on Instagram, TikTok, and her Website 
🌹 And presave make it make sense (feat. Ava McCoy) [stripped] "The Sadder Version" here